Teachers get preliminary OK to carry weapons 6/26/03
Salt Lake Tribune

The Jordan School Board gave preliminary approval Tuesday to a policy
outlining the conditions under which district employees may carry a concealed
weapon on school property with a valid permit.
Employees must keep the weapon concealed and employees who legally use a
concealed weapon on school grounds do so in their individual capacities, not
their scope of employment.
The Jordan board will formally vote on the policy at its July 16 meeting.
Both policies are in response to a law passed during the 2003 legislative
session, Senate Bill 108, that harmonized conflicting parts of state code. One
section allowed concealed weapons on school campuses, while another prohibited
it.
Also Tuesday, the board agreed to consider a policy that would not allow
student travel overseas, to Canada or to Mexico unless a principal can
demonstrate "the absolute necessity of the travel and that all appropriate
safety considerations have been addressed."
"I would hate to see students lose an opportunity because the policy is so


The travel policy also will be up for a formal vote at the July 16 meeting.

-- Ronnie Lynn

This is utterly idiotic. Well, no, actually its pretty damned smart
for whatever personal injury lawyer thought of it.
If a school has such a problem that teachers feel they need a gun,
there is a single Answer-- have sworn peace officers on campus. Giving
people the right to carry guns who do not have police training is
about the worst thing that can be done.

I also think the post is idiotic. But, having said that, do you think our
founding fathers had some sort of police training? I am one of those fools
that believe the constitution gives me the right to carry a gun. The state
offers a degree of limitation by requiring a license. I don't think a
school is a place to carry a gun. Even though there have been shootings in
the past, there has to be some expectation that violence requiring deadly
force is about to happen. Your single answer is idiotic, too. Do you have
any concept of how many sworn officers it would take to be in physical
presence at all of our schools? Schools are no longer one-room country
schools. Today, schools are sprawling complexes. Look at the security
forces at even small colleges and then attempt to put guards in the school
system. That is even more idiotic than arming the teacher! There isn't
enough money in the treasury to pay for something like that. Just my 02. .
.. . .
..


meeting.

If you look at the actual practice of our founders, you will find that most
of them did not go around armed in peacetime, nor did most of those who did
not live on the frontier.

My favorite story about the early Republic is from St. John Crievecour. On
a visit to Philadelphia (the capital at that time), he saw George Washington
walking along a street and shopping. He turned to his guide and said, "But
who is guarding him?"

The guide slapped himself on the chest and said, "I am!"

Jim Wayne

Lots-- but far better than having a ton of teachers carry guns. Do
you have peace officer training? Are you aware of the difference
between a situation authorizing deadly force and one that does not?
The ability to rachet a situation back down from the deadly force
stage?
Do you have the training to consider what your backstop is? Pull a
9mm and fire in a classroom, and the bullet is likely to miss (as most
bullets do in short range firefights), and head right into another
class room. Do you have the training to STOP firing?
A firefight in a crowd is a cops special little nightmare, and one
that arming untrained teachers is likely to bring to fruition. It's
far more than simply known how to point a gun and fire. Teachers are
not trained in such methods, and they cannot easily be trained,
because being a good cop is just as much a full time occupation as
being a teacher.

In addition, theres a minor thing known as prioritizing. You don't
have cops at every school, you have them at schools where there are
problems. You use proactive law enforcement to maintain control, not
the technique of arming every teacher. The other schools don't need
armed law enforcement on campus, and they certainly don't need armed teachers.


There's far more money than there will be if you arm teachers. THe
first time a student is shot, the school will be sued, and very, very
likely lose, because school district and teachers do not have the same
liability protections police do. This is even assuming that the
shooting is justified-- if a teacher fires a gun and the bullet goes
through the wall and kills another student you might as well just sign
over the school district to the parents-- and tell the teacher to
change his addy, because he's going up for negligant homicide.

This ignores the minor fact that by having guns lying around, there
is a very good chance that the next school shooting will be conducted
by a student who got a hold of a teacher's gun. Quite easy to do--
many students in HS are in better physical shape than many of their
teachers.

How many gun owners (and carriers) are there in the US? How many people do they
kill each year?

[email]null (AT) null (DOT) .inva[/email]lid said:


I don't know where you live, but those of us in civilized States
require periodic training in all of those areas for anybody who
carries concealed.

That said, I agree that teachers carrying concealed is a bad idea.

Well, among the deadliest items in the U.S. is a legally owned gun
in a home-- which is statistically far more likely to be used against
the family, either by a family member, or someone who stole the gun,
then it is to be used against an intruder.
As for gun owners, it's hard to tell-- depends on whether you mean
"only those with concealed carry permits" or "everyone with a pistol"
or "Everyone with a gun of any type".
For the first, it depends on the state-- in California, its very
nearly impossible to get a Concealed permit, unless you are in some
profession that needs it, and even than it's usually at the descretion
of hte local Sheriff (who, at least in some parts of CA, approves or
denies the application for a concealed permit.), in states like New
Mexico or Texas, simply carrying a gun is something that is much easer
to do, but even in those states, I believe a concealed weapon requires
a special license.

Probably less than the number of people killed with cars.

Martin

[email]null (AT) null (DOT) .inva[/email]lid said:


That's a meaningless statistic. My TV remote control is also
much more likely to injure a member of my family than an intruder.
That doesn't tell you anything at all about how dangerous it is.

The meaningful statistic is what percent of legally owned guns
end up being used any other human being, and the number is very
small.

Ah, so you're saying it would be better if teachers bring them to school instead
of leaving them at home?

yes, by a very large amount-- OTH, I don't recall any plans to allow
teachers to bring their SUV's into homeroom :)

Hmm, both our Ag teacher and Auto Tech teacher typically drive
vehicles into their classrooms.

Martin

You might also look at recent and not so recent court rulings all he way
up to the US court of Appeals. "The police have no obligation to
protect individual citizens'. In fact to do so would liable them for
civil litigation for their actions.