I had no idea what this was about when I started reading it. About midway into
it, I started thinking, wow.. this lady sounds a bit like me...

It's an interesting story. It says a lot about the mindset of the era in which


The husband, a physician of some sort, supposedly of great repute, would not
allow her to even acknolwedge to herself that something was wrong with
her mind. Yet he forced her to put aside all her intellectual pursuits and "get
plenty of fresh air and rest"... for what purpose? He told her nothing was
wrong with her; yet she was "sick"--but it was not a mental illness. The poor
woman. She was doomed.

At first I was annoyed with the writing style, thinking it was pretentious; but
then about the time I noticed the woman sounded like me, I realized how
well-written the character was. Believe it or not I used to obsess over
wallpaper in exactly the way this woman did in the early stages. lol. Our
similarities parted ways when she began to notice the woman creeping outside.
Well, I was never certain that there was a flesh and blood person in my wall
paper... I did think the husband overreacted a bit when he fainted at the end.

Laura k


qualis artifex pereo

This story has so many points of symbolism in it. The author tells us a
lot about the time period, and women's plights with her choice of words,
and things that happen in the story.

I think the "bars" underneath the pattern of the paper was the shadow of
the bars on the window. The woman shaking the bars and the paper was the
shadow of herself shaking them. The smudge around the base of the wall
was from her own "creeping". The women she saw creeping outside were
shadows she saw of herself when light came through another window (I
picture the windows to be similar to bay windows... She gives several
clues throughout the story for those things to be true. I think it was
symbolic of her true, repressed self trying to come out, enraged at being
caged with a "nervous depression". I think there really was something
wrong with her, today we call it post partum depression. In those days,
it was more of a mental illness than today. (Even though it is now being
linked to murder) I think being locked up caused the breakdown.

This rest cure was a real treatment in Charlotte Perkins Gilman's day.
She herself actually underwent this treatment, and then wrote this story.
She sent her story to the doctor who invented the cure, who after reading
the story, changed his methods LOL Charlotte truly had a nervous
breakdown after the birth of her child. I think she wrote this from her
own experience. She divorced her husband after she was well again, and
went on to play a part in the women's rights movement, writing several
other pieces of non-fiction. I hesitate to call this story fiction, as I
think it was her relating something she may have gone through.

--
~Dana~
C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots!
~Joe Boxer Tee Shirt

This story has so many points of symbolism in it. The author tells us a
lot about the time period, and women's plights with her choice of words,
and things that happen in the story.

I think the "bars" underneath the pattern of the paper was the shadow of
the bars on the window. The woman shaking the bars and the paper was the
shadow of herself shaking them. The smudge around the base of the wall
was from her own "creeping". The women she saw creeping outside were
shadows she saw of herself when light came through another window (I
picture the windows to be similar to bay windows... She gives several
clues throughout the story for those things to be true. I think it was
symbolic of her true, repressed self trying to come out, enraged at being
caged with a "nervous depression". I think there really was something
wrong with her, today we call it post partum depression. In those days,
it was more of a mental illness than today. (Even though it is now being
linked to murder) I think being locked up caused the breakdown.

This rest cure was a real treatment in Charlotte Perkins Gilman's day.


the story, changed his methods LOL Charlotte truly had a nervous
breakdown after the birth of her child. I think she wrote this from her
own experience. She divorced her husband after she was well again, and
went on to play a part in the women's rights movement, writing several
other pieces of non-fiction. I hesitate to call this story fiction, as I
think it was her relating something she may have gone through.

--
~Dana~
C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots!
~Joe Boxer Tee Shirt


Very good Dana! I didn't make the connection of the woman creeping on the
grounds being her shadow creeping. That makes sense. She talked of herself
creeping too. I did think the bars in the wallpaper were the reflection from
the windows and the woman was behind the bars, but I didn't think of it being a
reflection of her shaking the bars, trying to get out. I like to think that I
might have been deeper had I read it this morning after I slept instead of at
4am! hahha. I am heading out now, but I will read it again and get back to you. lk

Laura k


qualis artifex pereo

It was put forth in my MIL's class that the husband was having an affair
with Jenny, and they had brought her there trying to drive her mad so
they could commit her and get her out of the way. Me and my MIL didn't
get that from it. I got that Jenny was his sister. What do you think?

--
~Dana~
C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots!
~Joe Boxer Tee Shirt

I looked for the program of the live reading of this play that I attended, but
can't put my hands on the "playbill box".
I remember that Jenny was referred to as Anne's sister-in-law, though, when she
welcomed them to the country house.

It seems that John was attempting to drive her mad, though, but maybe more by
isolating her from her new baby. And isolating her from the baby in a room
that had been a nursery. I think that because of the isolation and the lack of
physical distractions (books, writing materials, caring for her own child, etc)
she began to obsess on the details of the room, specifically the wallpaper.
her husband took her away from her child, and left her where there wasn't much
else to do but consider all the children that had occupied the room before her.

It seems to me that the woman behind the bars of the wallpaper was herself, in
her own mind. I think she allowed herself imaginary freedon, by vizualizing
the woman escaping to the garden.

I looked for the program of the live reading of this play that I attended, but
can't put my hands on the "playbill box".
I remember that Jenny was referred to as Anne's sister-in-law, though, when she
welcomed them to the country house.

It seems that John was attempting to drive her mad, though, but maybe more by
isolating her from her new baby. And isolating her from the baby in a room
that had been a nursery. I think that because of the isolation and the lack of
physical distractions (books, writing materials, caring for her own child, etc)
she began to obsess on the details of the room, specifically the wallpaper.
her husband took her away from her child, and left her where there wasn't much
else to do but consider all the children that had occupied the room before her.

It seems to me that the woman behind the bars of the wallpaper was herself, in
her own mind. I think she allowed herself imaginary freedon, by vizualizing
the woman escaping to the garden.


It's my understanding that it was considered an appropriate treatment in those
days for certain mental illnesses to decrease the number of distractions the
person has. Consequently, I thought it was odd that when she requested that
they move out of the room with the wild wall paper he declined the request. But
then I accepted the explaination that there was plenty of sunshine and fresh
air and a lovely view.

Laura k



qualis artifex pereo

Who is Anne?

Also, in the story, at the very end, the name Jane is mentioned. I think
that is the authors name. No where in the story does it name her. Mary
is the nanny, John the husband, Jenny the sister in law. I also still
don't understand...if he was TRYING to drive her mad...why did he faint
at the end when he saw her madness? Seems to me he would have been
pleased, not shocked.

--
~Dana~
C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots!
~Joe Boxer Tee Shirt

If you look closely in the story, you can tell he controls her. He is a
controlling man. Her role as a woman is insignificant in his world at
best.

--
~Dana~
C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots!
~Joe Boxer Tee Shirt

in those

distractions the

that

request. But

fresh

Laura kIf you look closely in the story, you can tell he controls her. He is a
controlling man. Her role as a woman is insignificant in his world at best.
-- ~Dana~C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots! ~Joe Boxer Tee
Shirt


Oh yes, I agree, that's why in my first post I said that it spoke to the role
of women in that era. It didn't occur to her to "disobey," other than to sneak
her writing. But she seemed to give more deference to him as a doctor, tho sort
of scathingly, at times. I found it curious that she only mentioned her own
child a few times. As soon as I realized she was mentally ill, I quickly
thought, she must have been exhibiting signs of mental illness and this is how
they responded, including keeping her away from the baby, as they felt the
strain would be too much for her. I also thought, when she wanted to see people
and he said no, that he was trying to hide her illness from people outside the
close family. In those days, they were still warehousing the mentally ill in
insane asylums. I suppose that would account for why her husband would have
fainted. He had been staying away from her. If her writings were accurate and
she were putting on weight and color, then he would be shocked to see the state
to which she had actually mentally deteriorated.

Laura k



qualis artifex pereo

The treatment she recieved was called the "rest cure" and the true author
sent this story to the doctor she received the care from, who then
changed his methods LOL!! In the rest cure, they believed that "nervous
depression" (post partum depression in her case) could be cured with this
"rest cure", which involved removing the person from all outside stumuli,
giving them lots of rest, fresh air, and food, but no contact with
anything upsetting or trying on the patience. (Like a baby can be at
times) I still don't think the husband wanted her crazy. I think that's
why he fainted. But going on my mil's teacher's theory, he wanted her to
go crazy. If he did, then why did he faint when she did? KWIM? I
am lovin this! :)

--
~Dana~
C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots!
~Joe Boxer Tee Shirt

Subject: Re: The Yellow Wallpaper Discussion My Thoughts
From: Dana [email]Bugsy (AT) ufeardeath (DOT) com[/email]
Date: 9/13/2003 3:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:


I think the "bars" underneath the pattern of the paper was the shadow of
the bars on the window. The woman shaking the bars and the paper was the
shadow of herself shaking them. The smudge around the base of the wall
was from her own "creeping". The women she saw creeping outside were
shadows she saw of herself when light came through another window (I
picture the windows to be similar to bay windows... She gives several
clues throughout the story for those things to be true. I think it was
symbolic of her true, repressed self trying to come out, enraged at being
caged with a "nervous depression". I think there really was something
wrong with her, today we call it post partum depression. In those days,
it was more of a mental illness than today. (Even though it is now being
linked to murder) I think being locked up caused the breakdown.

This rest cure was a real treatment in Charlotte Perkins Gilman's day.


the story, changed his methods LOL Charlotte truly had a nervous
breakdown after the birth of her child. I think she wrote this from her
own experience. She divorced her husband after she was well again, and
went on to play a part in the women's rights movement, writing several
other pieces of non-fiction. I hesitate to call this story fiction, as I
think it was her relating something she may have gone through.

--
~Dana~
C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots!
~Joe Boxer Tee Shirt

**********
I believe it's true. I don't think anyone could imagine mental illness in such
detail.
I knew right away she had a mental illness. I thought she was in a mental
hospital, since there were bars on the windows. And a gate at the top of the
stairs.
They had to be scared of what she'd do, otherwise why not let her have a room
downstairs?
Post partem depression can be extremely serious. If for no other reason, you
now, as sick as you are, have a little baby to care for.
She had psychosis, she imagined seeing women creeping around, she imagined
someone just as imprisoned (pysically and mentally) as she was inside the
wallpaper.

If someone really loves you, they listen to you and don't scoff at your
problems. I'm glad she left her husband.

Diane
God bless our soldiers.

Subject: Re: The Yellow Wallpaper Discussion My Thoughts
From: [email]sallyatticum (AT) aol (DOT) comp[/email]os-sui (Sally Atticum)
Date: 9/14/2003 1:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time

It's my understanding that it was considered an appropriate treatment in those
days for certain mental illnesses to decrease the number of distractions the
person has. Consequently, I thought it was odd that when she requested that
they move out of the room with the wild wall paper he declined the request.

***But
then I accepted the explaination that there was plenty of sunshine and fresh
air and a lovely view.


Laura k
qualis artifex pereo

*******
Not me, that was the give away. Maybe the only room with bars and a gate at the
top of the stairs was the yellow room.


Diane
God bless our soldiers.

It's my understanding that it was considered an appropriate treatment in those
days for certain mental illnesses to decrease the number of distractions the
person has. Consequently, I thought it was odd that when she requested that
they move out of the room with the wild wall paper he declined the request.

***But
then I accepted the explaination that there was plenty of sunshine and fresh
air and a lovely view.


Laura k
qualis artifex pereo

*******
Not me, that was the give away. Maybe the only room with bars and a gate at the
top of the stairs was the yellow room.


Diane
God bless our soldiers.


Well, but it was a nursery. she was allowed out of the room. She said she went
riding and she walked on the grounds.

Laura k



qualis artifex pereo

Subject: Re: The Yellow Wallpaper Discussion My Thoughts
From: [email]sallyatticum (AT) aol (DOT) comp[/email]os-sui (Sally Atticum)
Date: 9/14/2003 5:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <20030914172432.18258.00000820 (AT) mb-m13 (DOT) aol.com>


Laura kIf you look closely in the story, you can tell he controls her. He is a
controlling man. Her role as a woman is insignificant in his world at best.
-- ~Dana~C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots! ~Joe Boxer Tee
Shirt


Oh yes, I agree, that's why in my first post I said that it spoke to the role
of women in that era. It didn't occur to her to "disobey," other than to sneak
her writing. But she seemed to give more deference to him as a doctor, tho sort
of scathingly, at times. I found it curious that she only mentioned her own
child a few times. As soon as I realized she was mentally ill, I quickly
thought, she must have been exhibiting signs of mental illness and this is how
they responded, including keeping her away from the baby, as they felt the
strain would be too much for her. I also thought, when she wanted to see people
and he said no, that he was trying to hide her illness from people outside the
close family. In those days, they were still warehousing the mentally ill in
insane asylums. I suppose that would account for why her husband would have
fainted. He had been staying away from her. If her writings were accurate and
she were putting on weight and color, then he would be shocked to see the state
to which she had actually mentally deteriorated.


Laura k
qualis artifex pereo

******
I think that as sick as she was, she knew he couldn't have been a very good Dr
not to notice.
I also think they kept the baby away from her because they feared what she
might do to it.
He might have thought she would get better after 3 months alone. And also to
hide her illness from others.
His fainting was imo him finally realizing how sick she really was.

Diane
God bless our soldiers.

The treatment she recieved was called the "rest cure" and the true author sent
this story to the doctor she received the care from, who then changed his
methods LOL!! In the rest cure, they believed that "nervous depression" (post
partum depression in her case) could be cured with this "rest cure", which
involved removing the person from all outside stumuli, giving them lots of
rest, fresh air, and food, but no contact with anything upsetting or trying on
the patience. (Like a baby can be at times) I still don't think the husband
wanted her crazy. I think that's why he fainted. But going on my mil's
teacher's theory, he wanted her to go crazy. If he did, then why did he faint
when she did? KWIM? I am lovin this! :)--
~Dana~C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots! ~Joe Boxer Tee Shirt


*********
I don't think he wanted her crazy. His choices all seemed to point toward
helping her. Except treating her like a child ( he even called her a child) and
denying to her face that anything was wrong with her.

Sick isn't stupid, his attitude bothered her.

Your mil's teacher misses the fact that she was already crazy, he didn't have
to push her.
Diane
God bless our soldiers.

Also, in the story, at the very end, the name Jane is mentioned. I think
that is the authors name. No where in the story does it name her. Mary
is the nanny, John the husband, Jenny the sister in law. I also still
don't understand...if he was TRYING to drive her mad...why did he faint
at the end when he saw her madness? Seems to me he would have been
pleased, not shocked.

--
~Dana~
C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots!
~Joe Boxer Tee Shirt


*******
Unless he or Jenny was behind the wallpaper, or crawling around the garden, I
don't believe that theory. lol
Diane
God bless our soldiers.

Subject: Re: The Yellow Wallpaper Discussion My Thoughts
From: [email]t0rllhousecookie (AT) aol (DOT) com[/email] (T0rllHouseCookie)
Date: 9/14/2003 11:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <20030914114333.03231.00000761 (AT) mb-m11 (DOT) aol.com>

I looked for the program of the live reading of this play that I attended, but
can't put my hands on the "playbill box".
I remember that Jenny was referred to as Anne's sister-in-law, though, when she
welcomed them to the country house.

It seems that John was attempting to drive her mad, though, but maybe more by
isolating her from her new baby. And isolating her from the baby in a room
that had been a nursery. I think that because of the isolation and the lack of
physical distractions (books, writing materials, caring for her own child, etc)
she began to obsess on the details of the room, specifically the wallpaper.
her husband took her away from her child, and left her where there wasn't much
else to do but consider all the children that had occupied the room before her.

It seems to me that the woman behind the bars of the wallpaper was herself, in
her own mind. I think she allowed herself imaginary freedon, by vizualizing
the woman escaping to the garden.

*******
I agree. At the end she says I got out of the wallpaper and you aren't putting
me back in.
He may have made her worse by lying to her and telling her she wasn't sick, but
I don't believe he wanted her crazy.

Diane
God bless our soldiers.

Subject: Re: The Yellow Wallpaper Discussion My Thoughts
From: [email]sallyatticum (AT) aol (DOT) comp[/email]os-sui (Sally Atticum)
Date: 9/14/2003 10:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <20030914221730.03448.00000877 (AT) mb-m11 (DOT) aol.com>

It's my understanding that it was considered an appropriate treatment in those
days for certain mental illnesses to decrease the number of distractions the
person has. Consequently, I thought it was odd that when she requested that
they move out of the room with the wild wall paper he declined the request.

***But
then I accepted the explaination that there was plenty of sunshine and fresh
air and a lovely view.


Laura k
qualis artifex pereo

*******
Not me, that was the give away. Maybe the only room with bars and a gate at the
top of the stairs was the yellow room.


Diane
God bless our soldiers.


Well, but it was a nursery. she was allowed out of the room. She said she went
riding and she walked on the grounds.


Laura k
qualis artifex pereo
******
Most likely not alone and during the daytime. At night who knows what she might
do.

Diane
God bless our soldiers.

It's my understanding that it was considered an appropriate treatment in those
days for certain mental illnesses to decrease the number of distractions the
person has. Consequently, I thought it was odd that when she requested that
they move out of the room with the wild wall paper he declined the request.

***But
then I accepted the explaination that there was plenty of sunshine and fresh
air and a lovely view.


Laura k
qualis artifex pereo

*******
Not me, that was the give away. Maybe the only room with bars and a gate at the
top of the stairs was the yellow room.


Diane
God bless our soldiers.


Well, but it was a nursery. she was allowed out of the room. She said she went
riding and she walked on the grounds.


Laura k
qualis artifex pereo
******
Most likely not alone and during the daytime. At night who knows what she might
do.

Diane
God bless our soldiers.


Okay I am altering my opinion on this, but I will wait for mic to post.

Laura k



qualis artifex pereo

Laura kIf you look closely in the story, you can tell he controls her. He is a
controlling man. Her role as a woman is insignificant in his world at best.
-- ~Dana~C.S.I.~Can't Stand Idiots! ~Joe Boxer Tee
Shirt


Oh yes, I agree, that's why in my first post I said that it spoke to the role
of women in that era. It didn't occur to her to "disobey," other than to sneak
her writing. But she seemed to give more deference to him as a doctor, tho sort
of scathingly, at times. I found it curious that she only mentioned her own
child a few times. As soon as I realized she was mentally ill, I quickly
thought, she must have been exhibiting signs of mental illness and this is how
they responded, including keeping her away from the baby, as they felt the
strain would be too much for her. I also thought, when she wanted to see people
and he said no, that he was trying to hide her illness from people outside the
close family. In those days, they were still warehousing the mentally ill in
insane asylums. I suppose that would account for why her husband would have
fainted. He had been staying away from her. If her writings were accurate and
she were putting on weight and color, then he would be shocked to see the state
to which she had actually mentally deteriorated.


Laura k
qualis artifex pereo

******
I think that as sick as she was, she knew he couldn't have been a very good Dr
not to notice.
I also think they kept the baby away from her because they feared what she
might do to it.
He might have thought she would get better after 3 months alone. And also to
hide her illness from others.
His fainting was imo him finally realizing how sick she really was.

Diane
God bless our soldiers.


Well, she referred to it as a nervous depression. I think it was Axis I
postpartum depression with perhaps an axis II personality disorder that
manifested with the isolation.

Laura k



qualis artifex pereo